Wow & Flutter 003 | it's okay, you can open your eyes now
Tj Nelson (Pinyonpine) and Chaz Prymek (Lake Mary) on geologic chaos, Yamaha presets, alpine swims, and feeling safe
I spent early spring with it's okay, you can open your eyes now in my ears on an $11 hot pink walkman, collecting glass and shells from the river where I live. I was emotionally in the weeds.
The tape felt like having a friend who just bought you a pack of glow in the dark stars for the ceiling in your room. Together— tacking up stars, drawing the ethereal from the familiar.
In Utah, lap steel and electronics are delicately stitched together by two friends asking you to connect to the world— instead of pulling away. Here is Pinyonpine and Lake Mary with their hard-earned sonic wisdom.
W&F: Hi Tj and Chaz, thanks for chatting. Are you writing from the forest and mountain parts of Utah, or the desert parts of Utah?
Tj: Hi Carolyn! Thanks for having us. We’re writing from the Salt Lake Valley— so neither! (Or maybe both?)
W&F: Are your artist names Pinyonpine and Lake Mary outdoor or regional features that have meaning to you?
Chaz: Yeah! Yeah. I moved up to Lake Mary in my early twenties or late teens, I’m getting old so my time is starting to allude me. I went up there a lots on family hiking trips, and later with my friends throughout the school years, but most transformative was spending a month in a tent up there doing a lot of personal healing work, getting sober, falling in love with swimming in the alpine lakes, getting to know myself then. When I came back and had decided to start taking music more as a way of life, I wanted to give homage to the place that let me grow and heal, so I named my band after this special spot. It felt freeing to have a moniker, like I could try out ideas without being boxed in.
Tj: Oh definitely! As a family we went down to Moab, UT a bunch while my dad was working on a documentary about the American West. Fast forward to later in life when I read Desert Solitaire. As problematic as the author is, he put into words what I love so much about the desert: the beauty, the harshness, the mystery, the smell, the “geologic chaos”. Those are all things I try to channel in my musical exploration.
W&F: How did you meet? You're so complimentary sonically, I wondered if your personalities feel complimentary too.
Chaz: How did we meet?
Tj: Back in ’03 or ’04 my partner at the time was working with Chaz at a bakery. We went over to a mutual friend’s house to grill and they were all playing guitar’s in the most wild way. I just remember thinking, Chaz is one of the most talented musicians I’d ever heard.
Chaz: After a few years of having not seen each other, we started messaging each other clips of bits of music we were working on. We decided to meet up in Salt Lake City while I was visiting family and see what we could do together, the first thing we did is the first track of it’s okay, you can open your eyes…
The way Tj and I think about music feels so cinematic and driven by quiet narrative. I think we both love instrumental music that takes you somewhere, and both have worked on our craft so much independently, that when we get together, it flows easily between us.
Tj has that thing, you know. A special palate, great taste and is one of my favorite people to hang with. Often enough, when we aren’t feeling making music, we just get ice cream and catch up.
W&F: How do you know when your work is finished, as a duo?
Chaz: We have only ever recorded or performed things together in studio or in concert. There is some kind of magical knowing that happens when playing this music together. We move moods and shift vibes and make story and at some point, there is a look and we both know this story has come to its end.
We’ve never edited anything back, or gone back and added more, what you hear is exactly what happened.
Tj: Yeah. We know there’s something there when we find a natural stopping point, turn to each other with a smile, and break the silence by saying something like, “Ha! That was cool.”
W&F: Tell me the state of ambient music in Utah. (*editor note, I regret this phrasing, but we try to be honest about our haste)
Tj: Lets see. It’s hard to say what the state of ambient music in Utah is, but Chaz is working some real magic by championing community and bringing in acts from across the country to expose Salt Lake to beauty we’d normally never see.
W&F: I really appreciate Aural Canyon - they do great releases, how did it's okay, you can open your eyes now land on the label? I think it's wonderful they released your tape as two longform sessions, what is it like working with Aural Canyon?
Chaz: Aural Canyon has kind of become family to me, I had previously released two records on Aural Canyon as Lake Mary, and when Tj and I decided to release this music, I thought Aural Canyon might be the perfect home. Working with Matthew (Aural Canyon) is a delight. He is really rooting for the artists he works with.
He takes time and care with every project. He believes in the work of the artists he puts on and makes sure to leave all the room for the to do their thing, take their time and make what they think is best.
Tj: It has been an absolute joy. Matthew is a real one.
W&F: The title track is probably one of my favorite compositions this year, there's a woosh throughout. Is it a field recording, or Tj's unique approach to filters and white noise?
Tj: Carolyn - that is high praise! At first, I thought the woosh you’re talking about was gritty delays of the Cocoquantus, but as we were sitting here, Chaz pulled up the track on his phone and said it was just the “waves” preset of his Yamaha! Hahah.
Chaz: I was into playing a game with my looper, where I would pick a key set a sparse loop, turn it down so I couldn’t hear it, and change settings and set another sparse loop on top of that, and do that a few times and just see what happens. This one felt special when I brought this to Tj who worked his magic on it.
W&F: What can we expect from you next? Shows? Tapes?
Chaz: Yeah, shows, tapes, records. We have a release with our friend Daniel Wyche (chi) that we are hoping to share soon, and are slowly chipping away at some new material together.
W&F: Do you have any advice for anyone wishing to try a collaboration with a friend?
Chaz: Lean into each other’s strengths, and let each other shine. I think it’s crucial to keep in mind why you are wanting to collaborate, and usually that is because you admire that person’s way of doing things, the decisions they make, the way they hear.
There are millions of great, skilled musicians, it’s not too important on how virtuosic one is, (but do take time to learn your craft) but it’s more in how ya’ll think and make decisions and listen and hear. Let each other shine, make room for each other and set each other up for success.
There is plenty of time to shine and show that you are skilled, and to share your prowess, and hopefully you are making a space for that too. It’s good to flex sometimes. But in collaborating, you are making something together. So be in it together. Listen.
Tj: Normally, collaboration is a difficult space for me to enter. I’m not sure why. Maybe it’s the freedom I feel to explore without having to worry about feeling judged or hold space. Or maybe I’ve not been partially fond of the sonic space with anyone else? I just tend to enjoying being solo dolo until jamming with Chaz. It feels so effortless and rewarding. What advice would I give? I think it’s important to be open. Open to the process and how it unfolds. And also open to it not feeling right.
W&F: Are you sure it's okay for us to open our eyes?
Chaz: I have two answers to this,
Firstly, I hope that right now, we all have our eyes open to what’s happening in the world around us, to both the atrocities and the beauty unfolding in our world. I hope that we can be moved by what we are seeing to turn that into movement, momentum, and care.
Secondly, this album felt to me like finding rest after a crumbling, immense journey, where one day you wake up safe and can begin rebuilding with some sense of relief. I hope that in my lifetime, we, all of us, and especially those in Palestine, Sudan, Myanmar, Congo, Haiti, Mexico, Korea, and the list goes on and on and on, get to hear whatever sounds it may be that let them know, it’s okay, you can open your eyes now.
Tj: Well said. Being present and aware can be scary, especially as the proximity to harm increases. Closing one’s eyes and bracing for impact is human. At the same time, withdrawing for too long can disconnect us from all the incredible things happening or have the potential to happen. For most of us, the powers that be want to see us isolated, alone, chasing material for happiness. Love, admiration, community, support is all free. To quote my dear friend (sorry for the hijack Chaz), “Take care of each other”. ➿
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Go get a tape:
Well, this one sold out. Maybe we can petition Aural Canyon for a second printing?
it's okay, you can open your eyes now | Lake Mary & Pinyonpine
Released February 6, 2024
Lake Mary - Lapsteel, Electronics
Pinyonpine - OP1, Monôme Norns, Ciat-Lonbarde Plumbutter & Cocoquantus.
Artwork by Chaz Prymek
Recorded live in Salt Lake City, UT December 2021
Mixed by Tj Nelson & Chaz Prymek
Mastered by Andrew Weathers
Design by Matthew Sage
Digital tape — found here.
Photo Credit: Ryan Ross
Photo Credit: Chaz Prymek
Photo Credit: Tj Nelson
Photo Credit: Tj Nelson
Photo Credit: Trent Call
Photo Credit: Tj Nelson
Photo Credit: Nora Price
Thanks for having us <3